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 Plastic Magic - again!

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barriew
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PostSubject: Plastic Magic - again!   Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:09 pm

So having abandoned for the moment my attempt to build Guardsman, here I go with another attempt to convert a plastic kit to RC.
I was able to pick this up on eBay for just over £15 including postage.



It is just over 12 inches long and the deck can be inserted after the two halves of the hull have been stuck together, so its is possible to install the motor etc whilst still having good access.

This is the contents of the box.



In this photo the two halves of the hull are held with tape to check that the above statement is correct  Rolling Eyes Once the deck is on there are two reasonable sized openings.  My first challenge was to fit a prop tube. 



As you can see, there is one moulded in to the hull, but this obviously is not suitable, although it would take a 2 mm shaft. I cut away the tube and bit of skeg above it and opened out the hole to take a bit of 3 mm brass tube. In this I will run some 2 mm servo rod with an M2 thread. The prop will have to be less than 20 mm diameter. Deans do one at 18 mm, or I will try the one in the kit.
At this stage the two halves were glued together using liquid poly glue.
There was a plastic rudder in the kit, so I copied that in brass and soldered to some brass rod. I actually need to reduce its height slightly as it is a tight fit between the hull and skeg, and I need to insert a rudder tube.

 

None of this is fixed yet. Next challenge is to devise a tiller arm and a method of clamping it to the rudder rod Rolling Eyes I also have to order a new motor - I don't have one small enough, although I do have an ESC and super-mini Rx and servo. I will use a very small LiPo battery.

Barrie
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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:45 pm

I shall be watching this intently as I have two  of the little lifeboats and a ross findus trawler that I would love to sail eventually.......go for it barrie.

neil.
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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:59 am

Neil, 

What I've found with these plastic kits is that some of them require you to fix the deck as you join the two hull halves together. This makes it very difficult to add the necessary bits to make it go Shocked Providing you can add the deck after you have a complete hull, then using miniature servos and motors, it becomes possible.

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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:57 pm

The rudder has been trimmed and its tube tacked in place with superglue. It will be strengthened with P38 once the prop tube is fixed - I'm waiting for my motor which was posted from N Wales yesterday. After a bit of head scratching I have made a mount for the micro-servo, a tiller arm and a linkage. The tiller arm is soldered to the rudder shaft - couldn't think of any other way Rolling Eyes Its a bit permanent, but then its not likely I will want or be able to remove it anyway. Smile  The linkage may need more work when the mount has set.

Barrie

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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:05 am

2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup watching eagerly Barrie.  2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:10 pm

The motor arrived today so I have been able to fix the prop tube. It stills need some P38 to strengthen it. I have made a support for the motor and it will eventually be fixed in place with some silicone sealant.
I remade the rudder linkage using brass wire instead of piano wire which has enabled me to put a Z bend in each end. Thumbup 



While waiting for the postman to bring the motor, I started work on the main cabin. This has been put together and I have added some strips to the inside to line it up with the opening. Coamings have been added to the opening, and the cabin now fits snugly in place. Next job is to devise a fixing method for this and the hatch cover. There is glazing for the cabin to fix, but I will leave it until I have painted it.

   

Finally I laid out the remaining items to see if they were going to fit. As usual, too many wires Rolling Eyes



Barrie
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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:22 pm

Please DO NOT USE P38 to hold shaft in ....it has NO STRUCTURAL STRENGTH ....it is used simply to fill DENTS....if you want to use anything then PLEASE use P40 BRIDGE A GAP this is used to REPAIR HOLES....hence the clue to its STRENGTH....Alternativly you can allways use an Epoxy Glue but NOT ARALDITE....far to brittle


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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:34 pm

stavros wrote:
Please DO NOT USE P38 to hold shaft in ....it has NO STRUCTURAL STRENGTH ....it is used simply to fill DENTS....if you want to use anything then PLEASE use P40 BRIDGE A GAP this is used to REPAIR HOLES....hence the clue to its STRENGTH....Alternativly you can allways use an Epoxy Glue but NOT ARALDITE....far to brittle


Dave

Yes I totally agree Dave, far superior stuff P40 with glass reinforced fibres 2thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:55 pm

I hear what you say Dave, but in this instance P40 would be overkill, and also very difficult to use in the space. In fact I came to the same conclusion regarding P38 and used epoxy. It was only needed to seal the tubes to the hull.
I have done some painting this morning - mainly the figures as I need one to go in the cabin. I painted the cabin exterior and when its dry I can fit the windows and then the roof. I have decided that it probably doesn't need anything to hold it to the deck - it is quite a snug fit. On the other hand the hatch cover will need some fixing.
Finally I made and fitted a battery box - oh, and I found a suitable prop. I just had to trim the skeg slightly for it to fit.

Barrie

 
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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:58 pm

Today I continued with the small jobs like painting and creating a fixing for the hatch cover. The wheel and helmsman were fitted into the cabin, the windows stuck in place and the roof glued down. The roof was subsequently painted. The fittings for the cabin roof were painted ready for installation. I re-fitted the bit of skeg cut away in fitting the prop shaft, and made and varnished a stand - the flimsy plastic one was no good.
Only two more modelling days before I go on holiday and I would like to get the hull painted so it has time to harden while I'm away.

Barrie

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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:21 pm

2thumbsup Thumbup 2thumbsup Thumbup 2thumbsup Thumbup 2thumbsup Thumbup 2thumbsup Thumbup
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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:59 pm

Despite the snow which has returned today ( very strange stuff! its been floating in the air all morning, and settling a little on plants, but the road and paths are actually drying) I painted the top part of the hull this morning. I would have preferred to spray it, but had to brush. Its the Club AGM in the morning, but on Monday I should be able to get the under water area painted. 
I also stuck the fittings to the cabin roof, and painted the main deck.

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PostSubject: Plastic Magic-again   Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:54 pm

Hi Barrie Very nice work and model choice but can I ask Where in N Wales the motor came from and why there in particular as there are loads of these motors gong cheap. In particular on E-Bay and Gear Best and Ebay ,Amazon too.Just a bit puzzled. I hope you don't mind my asking I have lots of these and similar ones retrieved from kids toys over the years and in various sizes too. Carry on the good work and good luck
                               John .
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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:40 pm

Component Shop - THE choice for electrical components

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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:58 pm

Yep I agree with that .I live in Meliden village Prestatyn so not too far from me. Great shop and staff.
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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:51 pm

Since returning from holiday I've been steadily painting fittings and finally the hull bottom. When I came to work out the waterline I had a pleasant surprise - it was moulded in Very Happy Having said that, I'm not sure how successful the masking will have been as there are also lots of plank lines - horizontal and vertical - moulded in as well  Rolling Eyes.
I'm not too happy with the deck colour - just wondering if I dare try rubbing some teak wood stain into it Shocked 
I think the hull will need another coat of paint, then some varnish and I should be able to put it all together.

Barrie

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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:03 pm

2thumbsup Thumbup 2thumbsup Thumbup 2thumbsup Thumbup 2thumbsup Coming together nicely Barrie.
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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:04 pm

I would always avoid a wood stain on a painted surface, there are intact other methods better suited to do a better job.

Have you tried dry brushing the deck or better yet given the deck a colour wash?

The colour wash would be pretty much the same as using a wood stain. ( lightly rubbed down with a paper towel will fill the gaps with a dark colour including wood grain effects,

Where as a dry brush teqhnique would work to highlight any surface planking or details raised on the surface.

I’ve had bad experiences with wood stains ( both acrylic and oil based) when it comes to trying to darken an area. Where as the other methods tend to be fool proof and nothing. A fresh coat of paint can’t hide should you make a right pigs ear as stains can still bleed through where as washes or dry brushing with acrylics becomes totally inert once dry.

Just my two cents of available options.

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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:55 pm

The lower hull got another coat of paint, then the whole hull was varnished using SatinCote. The deck had a coat of a slightly darker colour that I mixed, then mat varnish.
Today I re-fitted the motor etc and stuck down the deck Rolling Eyes. I have started fixing the fittings but not all are glued in this photo



After fixing the remaining ones, its on to my absolute favourite (I don't think) task - the rigging. This doesn't look too complicated, but I suspect it will be simplified by me. Shocked These are the rigging blocks supplied Shocked Rolling Eyes



I have been searching my bits box for some more conventional ones.

Barrie
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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:58 am

2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup Every model throws the unexpected at us, looking good Barrie.  2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:52 pm

I decided to test out everything this morning before fixing the mast and remaining fittings - OOOPS  - I found that I had not fixed the motor in place.  Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed
I originally intended to use silicone sealant, but then thought I would use a plastic tie so yesterday I made a mounting for the tie, but didn't actually fit the ties as I was waiting for the glue to harden. I then fixed the deck down and I can't get at the tie to fasten it Rolling Eyes Embarassed 
I have tried to insert some sealant and just hope that will be sufficient. If not I'm not sure what to do - there isn't enough access to get at the tie, which is in place, but not fastened. Shocked

I then started to tackle the rigging. After taking more than half an hour to string one block, even more simplification of the scheme will be required Rolling Eyes

Barrie
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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:22 pm

hi barrie,
I think you must still be on holiday mode sunny , and not switched back to modelling mode scratch , its not like you to forget elephant some thing like that lol! lol! . it will all work out in the end 2thumbsup its a nice small boat.

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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:30 pm

Thanks David - you could be right. My wife says I need at least a week to get over my holidays Very Happy Very Happy

Barrie
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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:09 pm

2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:27 pm

I should have said that te motor is unfortunately buried under the deck - the coupling is accessible through the hatch but not the motor!

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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:23 am

Are you able to use a thin rod or length of material that can reach into the boat and apply some 5min epoxy to the motor and it’s mount?

Of all th mistakes I’ve made I’ve yet to forget to tie down a motor to its mount, must be holiday blues I’m sure you’ll come up with a fix.




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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:04 pm

Well - the sealant had held the motor but the motor wouldn't work bounce bounce Nothing for it but to remove the deck. Luckily this came off quite easily with minor damage. After re-soldering the leads the motor worked so I fixed it in place with cable ties AND epoxy glue Rolling Eyes
Next problem, the servo operating arm had somehow slipped. I couldn't access the screws so I had to destroy its mount and re-fix it after correcting the arm. I am now waiting for various glues to set before final testing, then I can re-attach the deck. I think I will make it removable - it will mean having some visible screw heads, but that is probably a price worth paying - I will try to disguise these.

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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:01 pm

The motor and servo now work Thumbup I had to use some threadlock on the prop as it kept spinning off. 



I have glued some wood strips to the hull so that I can screw down the deck - just round the stern half as I think it will hold in place at the bows without screws. Just waiting for the 30 minute epoxy to go off - its only been 2 hours Shocked Its so cold down here still - they keep promising warmer tomorrow, but tomorrow never comes. lol!



Tomorrow I hope to get this bit finished and put it in some water to see about ballast. Maybe it will get its maiden voyage on Sunday, although on past experience I am not too sure - something else is bound to go wrong. Rolling Eyes  

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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:06 pm

2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:28 pm

The deck is now screwed down Thumbup Its been in the test tank (washing up bowl) and about 50 grams of lead added - mainly in the bows. Just the rigging to complete tomorrow and then maiden voyage on Sunday if the weather holds up.

Barrie

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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:02 pm

 

Mast secured and some rigging added. There is scope to add more, although what is shown on the drawing is illogical Shocked I think it could do with some deck clutter, but it is ready for sea trials tomorrow morning.

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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:50 pm

Awesome sauce 2thumbsup don’t forget photos of its maiden voyage!

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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:54 am

Ditto what Aron said. 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:05 pm

No Photos as no maiden voyage Embarassed Rolling Eyes

It won't go forward Shocked It will go backwards. Never had anything like this before. It must be the prop, which is one I found in my box of spares. It looks OK, if a little shallow pitch. Matters were not helped this morning by a fairly stiff onshore breeze and quite choppy water(for the size of model).

I need to find some small < 20 mm - plastic props. The only stockist I know is Deans Marine. 

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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:47 am

Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:23 pm

I found another couple of small props, and have changed to one which looks to have more pitch. It does look as though the original may have been a left hand one, but that shouldn't have stopped it working. Rolling Eyes
Unfortunately when I was testing the new one on the bench I noticed that the rudder was doing strange things. When the motor was running forwards, the servo was running continuously - there appears to be no stop Shocked. So I have ordered a new servo and also some capacitors to suppress the motor. Interference is not usually an issue with these small motors and 2.4 Ghz.
Of course this meant removing the deck again - I'm glad I decided to screw it down 2thumbsup. I will also have to find a way of mounting the new servo - I had to partly wreck the mount to remove the old one. Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:24 pm

The new servo came yesterday and has been fitted. Of course it was a different size, so needed the mount butchering.  Shocked When I tried it with the motor running there was no interference with the servo, however as I had bought suppressors I fitted the one across the motor terminals - I didn't really have enough access to fit the ones to the can.  Everything has been re-fitted ready for another test on Sunday. If this prop doesn't work I will have to buy some new ones.

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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:13 pm

Another failure today. As soon as I put the boat in the water and opened the throttle the prop came off Embarassed Embarassed I didn't use thread lock this time Embarassed Embarassed. Luckily it was over the concrete ramp so the prop was recovered, but it is quite a fiddle to get it on, so I left it on the deck while I sailed my other model. Then the wind blew it over and despite three of us searching, the prop wasn't found. Sad Sad
However, just as I was driving out of the car park, one of our members found it 2thumbsup 2thumbsup. I now have to re-fit it, with thread lock this time Rolling Eyes, and try again. This may not be for a week or two.

As for a next model, I'm going to take a break - tidy the workshop, get rid of some junk and think about what I want to build. One type that interests me is the Maine Lobster boat, but I don't seem to be able to find any plans. The other idea is to re-visit Guardsman and see if I can sort out the problems.

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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:13 pm

That’s bad luck on the prop issues, I’m sure you’ll get it resolved.

As for a new project I had seen a smaller kit of a shrimping boat on eBay recently, however for the life of me I cannot find the link but it was a plastic 1:72nd kit.

However just to be different I could also suggest building the orca from the jaws film.. it’s also a model we have yet to see on the forum and I belive you would make a grand job of it!

Plan available here

https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/mar2463.html#SID=195




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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:37 pm

Thanks for the ideas RR. I have seen some models of Orca - it is an idea if nothing else hits me. My wife did suggest a Thames Barge - it would be static as I've no interest in learning how to sail Shocked

Still plenty of other things to be doing for the moment.

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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:26 pm

I like the Thames barges I was fortunate to get my refund when Traplet shutdown when I brought there plan and bulkhead kit which would have been this years project other than my upcoming one if they didn’t fob me off for months with excuses on there laser cutter not working.

But ild be happy seeing either boat built, I just liked the idea of the orca dragging a plastic shark behind it lol!


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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:55 am

lol! lol!
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Location : Thaxted, Essex

PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Sun May 13, 2018 12:47 pm

Finally got another chance to try the Shrimp boat today without too much success Rolling Eyes It did move forward - just, but had practically no steering. I will now leave this on the shelf until I can get some decent props for it. I may also look to increase the size of the rudder, but I think a better water flow would solve the steering problem.

Barrie
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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Sun May 13, 2018 2:18 pm

Sadly it may be that the model given it’s size won’t run in water, it’s always an issues with scale boats that you can’t sail in scale water.

It would not be a bad model to just have displayed at home and no need to keep spending time or money on it.

I guess it comes down to how far your prepared to go, that said I actually have a boat of a fairly large size ( 36”) and it’s never run since it’s first sea trial, many many modifications to try to get it running, but sadly without a massive chop to the hull it won’t run, or turn correctly, it happens to be the oversized skeg/keel is far to deep in the boat and won’t allow the model to turn instead keeps it running straight. However when I reduced the skeg the boat will no longer sit on the water right and on turns even at low speeds would keel the boat hard over!

It’s one of those models that seriously annoyed me given that it was a small fortune to build along with at the tine using the top end 900 size motors (twin prop)

Needless to say the skip nearly got used with it but given how nice it looks I just use it as a show model rather than a runner.

Maybe one day Ill sell it “as seen” and not highlight it’s critical flaw lol!


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PostSubject: Re: Plastic Magic - again!   Sun May 13, 2018 2:33 pm

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