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 A Pair of Shannons

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stavros
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PostSubject: A Pair of Shannons   Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:34 pm

Right then some guy called Neil dropped down a pair of Shannons today to be painted so I thought what a good subject to show how to paint properly warts an all.

One is a Models by design hull and the other a speedline kit....and NO I wont be comparing both boats either,Ok the Speedline one had a deck and superstructure that comes off in one piece and the other has a superstructure that lifts off and the deck is fixed,That's all I will say and I don't want to see comments about this is different to this and that,This is a PAINTING tutorial that's ALL.

Even though I will be using 2 pack materials to paint these and not Rattle cans the process of prep and paining will be the same and if there is and there will be slight changes in Girt roughness I will mention this.

WARNING any painting is Hazardous to health whether is being 2 pack aerosols etc and What I advocate in this thread I will NOT BE HELD LIABLE FOR ANY ILL HEALTH ETC.

ALSO rubbing down ANY FILLER PAINT ETC is also Hazardous to health and you  I CAN NOT STRESS ENOUGH YOU MUST WEAR A SUITABLE MAST....And NO I WILL NOT RECOMEND ANY MASK It is up to the INDIVIDUAL to what they wear,Yes I will mention what I USE thats all.

I also will not appologise for using capitals this is deleberate to emphasise things and it certaitntly is NOT shouting...I call a spade a spade and if you dont like it tough !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One is owned by Neil...the Speedline one and the MBD one is Mick French and it will be a Pleasure to do both.

What gives me the right to give advise on painting .....well I think over 30 years or experience in the car trade qualifies me I THINK !! 

IMG_3069 by David Jones, on Flickr

IMG_3068 by David Jones, on Flickr



Right then where do we start step 1 will be to degrease both hulls thouroughly and NO I wont be using Fairly liquid or any other cleaner as this DOES NOT  do a proper job....trust me on this....Ive been painting for over 30years.These hulls will be washed down with PANEL WIPE there is simply NO other product that will degrease any Hull Model,plastic or wood steel etc,as the Karate instructor states in Karate kid simply wipe on wipe off,I usually do this 2 or 3 times in case ive missed anything.

The Next step will be to rub down the hulls etc with 180 Grit DA DISCS........WHY 180 grit I hear you ask isnt that rather rough I say NO ....WHY....this will make sure the primer will adhere properly to the Grp...this can be said of Wood Plastic Etc...and YES these steps can be used on ANY Model.

TAKE NOTE I will NOT be rubbing down with Wet/Dry either this will be done DRY...yes of course there will be dust.so what simply blow it off with a compressor or with a clean dry paintbrush and degrease again simples.

The Next step will be to inspect the hulls etc for ANY little imperfections that will need filling...More on that Later.

This is going to take some time to get to completion as beleive you me it is going to take time to rub them down but I will post updates every week bearing in mind I got limited time in the shed due to 2 young children...Any questions then simply ASK

To Be continued


Dave


PS if you think your QUESTION is stupid it is the stupid Questions that are the ones everyone is afraid to ASK
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nhp651
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PostSubject: Re: A Pair of Shannons   Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:07 pm

I am going to enjoy this one Dave...………...look forward to it, and hope to learn much, as I am one crap painter.


neil.
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battleshipbuff
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PostSubject: A Pair of Shannons   Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:34 am

I will certainly be taking a close interest in watching the progress and methods used on these two subjects!
Thanks for taking them on Dave
Mick F
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stavros
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PostSubject: Re: A Pair of Shannons   Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:07 pm

Well today was the day the Sisters got rubbed down,how do we do this.
Forsit job of the day was to wash them down with PANEL WIPE.....Nothing else will do to degrease any model for get it this is what you need simply wipe on and wipe off.

Right then what do we use,2 ways of approaching this job and both are as messy as each other,You can either use Wet/dry and get yourself covered with water and sludge everywhere or you do it the modern way,Yes Modern way,the days of rubbing down using water has long gone in bodyshops these days..WHY ?? Right then why introduce dampness into your paintwork and cause yourself problems.

Yes of course rubbing down dry has it's own problems but simply wear a dust mask.
My weapons of choice DA discs.....oh we cant afford those I hear you say,walk into any body shop and beg steal borrow some usually a couple of quid will get you some.Obviously I buy mine in bulk.

You only really need 3 Grades of Grit...80/180/400 or 500(read what i say)

  80 Grit to shape the filler quickly and efficiently
180 Grit this is to get rid of the marks from the initial rubbing down with 80 and prior to priming
400 Grit to rub down the primer prior to painting with a solid colour
500 Grit this is for a 2 stage paint in other words a basecoat and laquer

Baisically you can rub a hull down with 180 grit if there is no filler required,or if you want to spend a long time rubbing  down then use 400 up to you,I know which one ill use !!!!

My DA discs and rubbing down block


IMG_3071 by David Jones, on Flickr

Rubbing block??? yes a rubbing block ...with the best will in theworld there is NO WAY on earth can you rub anything down smoothly without one it is impossible to do without one,yes I do realise and I agree,sometimes you have got to use your fingers to access the impossible to get at areas.

What are we trying to acheive rubbing down,well a flat unshinny finish that you can not see a reflection in it,very difficult to get a pic of this but I hope this will show the difference between a rubbed surface and one that's not 

Left hand side of superstructure has been sanded right not 

IMG_3072 by David Jones, on Flickr


Right hand side rubbed down left has not 

IMG_3074 by David Jones, on Flickr

What you want to aim for is a completetly dull surface and not one that you see shinny bits in it the shinny bits are the ones you have Missed !!!!!

Oh My life what a nightmare the sterns are   

IMG_3076 by David Jones, on Flickr

This is what you are trying to achieve

IMG_3078 by David Jones, on Flickr

Both Girls ready to be primed hopefully at work this week



IMG_3081 by David Jones, on Flickr


Just to give you an idea on time scale and method used,both boats have taken well over 6 hours work to get to this stage If I had used water they would have taken well over 8 hours at least,rubbing down dry is far quicker and easier to see where you are up to.

TBC 


Dave
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nhp651
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PostSubject: Re: A Pair of Shannons   Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:23 pm

they look superb mate.……...I shall be forever in your debt.
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PostSubject: Re: A Pair of Shannons   Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:38 pm

in debt to him, you will neil when he sends the brown envelope with the bill in it  lol! £££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££   lol!



david
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battleshipbuff
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PostSubject: Re: A Pair of Shannons   Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:30 pm

nhp651 wrote:
they look superb mate.……...I shall be forever in your debt.
Blimey,
I'm going to be in trouble here,at this rate he will be wanting TWO Cornish Pasty's,NOT GINSTERS!,and then I will get told off by his missus for overfeeding him. Lol
Mick F
lol! lol!
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stavros
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PostSubject: Re: A Pair of Shannons   Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:56 pm

Hang on a mo ONLY 2 I Want at least 2 a WEEK sending up to North Wales M8 otherwise ill spray YOUR Shannon PINK with YELLOW SPOTS on it .


Dave
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delta151
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PostSubject: Re: A Pair of Shannons   Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:34 pm

Stavros,
Can you recommend anything for rubbing down other than the U-POL discs as they would work out ridiculously expensive to buy a pack of each grade.  Many thanks.  I am looking forward to the rest of this as, apart from using rattle cans, I am not a very good painter.
Derek.
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nhp651
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PostSubject: Re: A Pair of Shannons   Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:18 pm

delta151 wrote:
Stavros,
I am looking forward to the rest of this as, apart from using rattle cans, I am not a very good painter.
Derek.


Derek...…...WHY do you think I jumped at the chance and offer when Stavros virtually told me on the pain of death, that he was going to paint them for me.........I jumped with joy at the offer and will always be indebted to Stav.

I've already had one rollicking off him!!!, lol.
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stavros
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PostSubject: Re: A Pair of Shannons   Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:42 pm

delta151 wrote:
Stavros,
Can you recommend anything for rubbing down other than the U-POL discs as they would work out ridiculously expensive to buy a pack of each grade.  Many thanks.  I am looking forward to the rest of this as, apart from using rattle cans, I am not a very good painter.
Derek.
 Have you any car body repair shops around you if so Pop in and ask nicely if you can buy some off them tell them what you are doing and get say 10 80/180/400 shouldnt cost more than a tenner they will last you a long time 


Dave
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PostSubject: Re: A Pair of Shannons   Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:11 am

Thanks, Dave.  I will have to see what I can find.
Derek.
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stavros
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PostSubject: Re: A Pair of Shannons   Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:42 pm

Right then this has got to be said I cant hold back on it.

Contrary to popular belief and accusations on another forum,slating my proffesional integritry NO damage whatsoever has been caused to the 2 Shannon's that I am painting.I have been Painting for over 30 years and also am a fully Qualified Grp Laminator who should know a thing about Gelcoating.Gelcoating is either applied with a paintbrush and to cover the mold properly the gel coat is approx 1/16th of and inch to 1/8th of an inch so rubbing down by hand WILL NOT DAMAGE OR GO THROUGH to the Fiberglass matting.I have fitted car bonnets boots and also worked on Lotus cars and Tvr's which both have grp bodies and have had to go through the gelcoat to repair star crazing.The regelcoated the bodies and rubbed them down smooth,also the same has been done on boats which osmosis has been repaired.

I would NEVER post any method on any forum which would damage any modelers pride and joy....So unless anyone has got anything to say come on here to say it or to my face as I dont suffer FOOLS gladly.

I alos make NO appologies for my spelling or pronounciation as I am Dyslexic so anyone who has the odasity to critisise then that is sheer Discrimination

RANT OVER end of .

Back to the painting of the boats.

First step was to panel wipe the hulls prior to undercoating to make sure there was nothing to contaminate the primer.This was done with this make of panel wipe....this is what I use there are plenty of comparable makes out there.

This is simply wipe on wipe off

53732622_2206761346054431_2388027418876051456_n by David Jones, on Flickr

54727547_371477616771599_946786503445446656_n by David Jones, on Flickr

The following pictures ore self explanatory.....The primer used is a filler primer which is a 2 pack material.....Ye sit was sprayed on But you can also brush it on obviously NOT in an enclosed shed or garage but outside in the fresh air....Yes of course it will leave brush marks but the beauty of this product is you can simply rub it down to a smooth finish and yes you can apply aerosol top coat's or enamel on top of it .As I stated it is 2 pack  so a hardener must e mixed into it at a rate of 4 primer to 1 of hardener and approx 10% thinners.Forget the hardener and I admit I have done in the past HA HA even I make mistakes and boy oh boy have you got some cleaning to do .

53636682_631398360635180_5984149891675324416_n by David Jones, on Flickr

53769922_2275255512796928_6140372858846576640_n by David Jones, on Flickr

53822753_2313625015346998_2462031178559913984_n by David Jones, on Flickr

After the primer was applied I simply overcoated the primer with a black Guide coat....Whats that,this is needed so when I rub down the hulls prior to applying the colour on them...more of this later I will explain then 

53886036_391498124962285_4124383852271501312_n by David Jones, on Flickr

54435981_377794726391508_1658134685114433536_n by David Jones, on Flickr

55575701_2293805050832210_3813789409610825728_n by David Jones, on Flickr


Dave
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nhp651
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PostSubject: Re: A Pair of Shannons   Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:39 pm

OMG MATEY...………...almost having a modellers orgasm here...…………...they look dynamic...….

thank you, and don't worry about those comments...…..they will not re occur here......those mouldings are looking absolutely and utterly superb...…..when I gave them too you they almost needed an angle grinder to get rid of the detritus that I had left on them.

cheers....

mick French...…...have you seen these.
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PostSubject: Re: A Pair of Shannons   Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:42 pm

nhp651 wrote:
OMG MATEY...………...almost having a modellers orgasm here...…………...they look dynamic...….

thank you, and don't worry about those comments...…..they will not re occur here......those mouldings are looking absolutely and utterly superb...…..when I gave them too you they almost needed an angle grinder to get rid of the detritus that I had left on them.

cheers....

mick French...…...have you seen these.

Hear, hear, That is a welcome change for the better cheers cheers cheers
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battleshipbuff
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PostSubject: Re: A Pair of Shannons   Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:24 am

raaartygunner wrote:
nhp651 wrote:
OMG MATEY...………...almost having a modellers orgasm here...…………...they look dynamic...….

thank you, and don't worry about those comments...…..they will not re occur here......those mouldings are looking absolutely and utterly superb...…..when I gave them too you they almost needed an angle grinder to get rid of the detritus that I had left on them.

cheers....

mick French...…...have you seen these.

Hear, hear, That is a welcome change for the better cheers cheers cheers
Wowee, Stav,what a difference already.Who would have thought in such a fairly short time,the difference a little paint makes
Certainly looking forward to the next stage
Cheers my friend.
Mick F
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stavros
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PostSubject: Re: A Pair of Shannons   Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:56 pm

Right then we now need to rub down the hulls ready for the blue top coat and whats the idea of putting black on top of the primer....lets explain.

The main reason for putting on what is called a guide coat is to see where you have rubbed down and it shows up any defect's straight away and there is no way on earth can anyone rub primer down without a guide coat and do it properly. You will miss a lot of defects without one,no ones eyes are good enough to see them.You should use a guide coat when doing it the old fashioned way ie wet/sanding.

Here we see I have not rubbed enough of the guide coat down and it still showing defects,think of it this way....a hand saw has teeth with troughs and peaks on it....defects in the primer can be described in one way as saw teeth,ok I agree not as bad as a saw BUT....So sanding these out is realatevlysimple...rub down the primer till they simply disappear vola a smooth finish when they have gone


 54432472_347871642510248_3947880917111930880_n (1) by David Jones, on Flickr

99% gone just a little work around the fitting

53483039_2170645686599466_3386614354647449600_n by David Jones, on Flickr


one done one to go

54233832_308422456529071_2371345057228783616_n by David Jones, on Flickr


Right then we have rubbed down the hull whats next,Well your painting are needs a clean before carrying on...WHY well it gets rid of all the dust and detritis that will spoil the finish,if I am spraying components on the bench I allways use brown paer underneath the bits keeps things clea,then Panel wipe on panel wipe off then just before painting we now use a tack rag,Ok Whats this....a sticky cloth designed to remove any dust that's on the surface to be painted,if you inadvertantly tough the hull with your hand whist doing this then Stop and repanel wipe,I can not emphaszie how important this is as cleanliness is next to godliness when painting...why waste your time and effort and spoil it with finger marks.So We are now ready to paint what do I need,a spray gun ...in my case a Develbis gun and it's over 30 yrs old lol...my fav...some paint well as it's 2 pack paint I need hardener and thinners using this time a ratio of 2 to 1 and 10% thinners all properly measured out,yet again get this wrong ad be prepared for a mess !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..Dont ask how i know...only done it once never again.

You will notice that I didnt bother masking up the rest of the hull before sparaying the blue personally I didnt see the point and in any  case I just did not want a hard line on the hull just yet.

Well this is the result Ill let you all make your own minds how they look....I think they look spot on....well I would say that wouldnt I 

53850287_340856979970387_3414062047527174144_n by David Jones, on Flickr

53727173_2255860021408482_5348151177433317376_n by David Jones, on Flickr

54203882_1821182614654198_7644340225447034880_n by David Jones, on Flickr



54233832_2270205913190983_6090745379324690432_n by David Jones, on Flickr

54521860_2113371488731916_8562917710109868032_n by David Jones, on Flickr

55450462_271965780386245_9168193101649412096_n by David Jones, on Flickr


Whats next well take the hulls home and rub down the superstructures ready to be taken back to wok and paint them Orange,then all that left is the antifouling in Satin black,water line in White and then paint the deck with antislip Happy days maybee finished by next weekend,so I can then go fishing Yea ha,thats all for now got a Rubgy match to watch

Dave
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nhp651
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PostSubject: Re: A Pair of Shannons   Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:13 pm

FANTASTICHE'!!!!…...BRILLIANT...……...my god they look good mate.
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PostSubject: Re: A Pair of Shannons   Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:10 am

nhp651 wrote:
FANTASTICHE'!!!!…...BRILLIANT...……...my god they look good mate.


Yes the proof is in the pudding well done. cheers cheers
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PostSubject: Re: A Pair of Shannons   Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:38 am

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