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 MY NEW PROJECT...or two.

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nhp651
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:38 am

The bilge keels and running skegs were next to be fashioned from strips of obeche......

These were cut (on the gluing edge) to the contour of the hull at each point and then copied to a second piece each, for the second boat.

Further, the shape of them was also cut as per plans and/or photographic evidence. they were then shaped to roughly the profile end elevation and sanded to true shape..

Next they were drilled with a 2.00mm bit to take the retaining pins and these were made from brass rod and secured in place with 2 part epoxy adhesive.

They were offered up to the hull once set and the holes were marked in the hull for those retaining pins to set into.

Finally a layer of polyester filler was used as adhesive/filler and placed onto the gluing edge of the skegs.....these were then pressed home and once the filler had oozed from under the gluing edge, scraped off with a piece of ply wood and the skegs left to set....

They will later be sanded down and then numerous coats of sanding sealer added to the naked wood work to seal before the hull is painted and waterproofed.



















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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:45 pm

the more I look at the boat, the more there is to do before I put the deck onto the boat.

Today I spent time fairing in the rear propeller skeg on the motor sailer.

I used Milliput to firstly cover the propeller tube up.

Next was the surrounds to the propellor guard and this was also done with small lengths of milliput.
Finally small fillets made from rolled milliput was put into the edges where the skeg meets the hull.

On another tack I put the stern posts onto the rear of the boat, using 3mm ply, and faired in with polyester filler.

the next stage when all is set and cured is to sand them smooth and trim up.


















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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:25 am

That really is dedication to the cause.....All that milliput!!!! Shocked Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:19 am

very versitile stuff matey........can work wonders with it.

neil.



by the way there's a new addition to the Milliput range,.........Milliput BLACK............has anyone used it yet and if so what's it like.
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:41 am

People have mixed feelings regarding the difference between scratch and kit building, saying that kits are the easier option, but as we have seen in a recent thread about "adulterating" a kit by doing your own thing with it, that in itself is a form of scratch.......as you are interpreting your own ideas onto an established model, and I enjoy that just as much as the act of true scratch...except that you make less mistakes when altering a kit.............



I have just realised that all the effort that I made in making boxes for servos, receivers and such was to no avail, and a pure waste of time, as when I looked on the contemprorary model of the boat I am building, having servos in those positions just wouldn't have worked for one reason or another, and so, instead of wastying more time on the addition of tubing for rigging threads, I have decided to make them both free sailing, without servos and just basic rigging for light wind. But that is what scratch building is all about.....trial and error and learning from mistakes..........( only costly in time really)....and all part of the fun.......teach me to look at the rigging on the contemprorary model before blundering ahead with my own ideas......the old ones are the best, lol



Therefore, all those boxes as a previous post on both boats, except for the large one on the pulling / sailer will now be covered for ever by fitting the deck and getting on with the build.



So this morning I started by gluing in place the fore part of the deck on both boats .....thank gawd for old batteries and spring clamps.........worth their weight in lead, lol



the 3rd/4th photos show the fore decks in place with aft decks covering the boxes and ready for gluing once the fore part has set in an hour or so. I used Aliphatic waterproof glue to set in place.









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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:44 pm

WHY oh why did I pick these two boats to model..the deck and interior arrangements are proving a nightmare especially as they are to be sailing boats, and not knowing what freeboard they will have, I am having to make up deck and hatch access as I go on, but think I've finally cracked it with both boats.

I have "forseen" the mistake that I made with the motor sailer with regards not feeding an extension lead for the aft servo for steering by fitting this to the sailing boat before putting the rear decks on...............hopefully it will now be plain sailing (excuse the pun) with boat boats with no more retrograde improvements, lol

It has always been fine building my other lifeboats with their cabin areas to stash the r/c gear under, but I wanted these flush deck boats to have at least some watertight capabilities, and with the minor alterations this morning think I've managed it.


A bit of measureing and cutting, tons of aliphatic resin and loads of weight have done the trick.


Mind you....think I've overdone it on the ballast with the batteries,















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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:31 pm

Well, as soon as I had glued the decks on the sailer, I decided that my heaters in the workshop were just not holding their own against the minus temperatures outside and I was getting chilled........so decided to move the building indoors for a few days......and resume work on my 1:12 scale figures that I am preparing to get them moulded.
remember a few weeks back I decided to change the costume of the late 1960's men to early 20century and this meant taking all the lifejackets and such off the existing figures.....

today I started by putting the first cork lifejacket front onto the first crewman, using Milliput

It's a slow process but it's warm dry andit's fun and creative...gets the brain thinking again.







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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:55 am

All I can say is Bloody marvellous mate.
You could of course buy 1/12th blokes and make appropriate clothing for them there are quite a few on ebay in 1/12th doll house category.
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:24 am

that's what these originally were a long time ago Damien...........dolls house figures made from resin, I cut the arms off and remodelled the bodies into an earlier set used for my later classes of lifeboat...........just a matter of taking the little chaps apart and "redressing" them in another milliput costume and them moulding them in RTV rubber again.



there will be a 3rd set made later with a costume of the 1930-1960's using the old Kapock style mae west lifejackets, to complete a range of figures that will do straight through from 1890 to 1980.........all at 1:12 scale.



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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:32 pm

the little fellows are coming along a treat........... I'm keeping their bums warm on the radiator







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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:57 am

I am sure I see a self portrait in there Neil... Laughing Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:02 am

lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol!
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:52 pm

lol! yep..............3rd from left:lol!:lol!lol!
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:21 pm

hi neil

those figures look great neil.

having never used milliput, can you tell me if it drys out rock hard, our can you scrape bits of where necessary to get some shape, our do you have to do all shapeing before it drys. i have been useing DAS modelling clay but find it is messey but does the job ok, but what you use looks cleaner to use our am i wrong?

david
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:13 pm

it can be cut with care and sanded David....but the "White" cures very hard.



the best for getting shape by carving is the Grey packet, and the worst which remains reasonably soft is the Terracotta.

Haven't tried the new Black yet.

just be sure to spend a good time mixing the two parts together thoroughly or you'll get soft spots in the piece you are making and moulding.

neil.
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:10 pm

after finishing the transformation of the first set of figures from the 1960's costume to the old cork vests, and before I set about sanding them to a finish ready for moulding I started the other day on the second set of figures with the Kapok style lifejackets from the 1930's.
Had to trim off the shoulder supports and then add the pockets around sides and backs. All takes time with milliput, and was going great guns until my elder daughter came hope with a fever and sore throat..........

down to the Day centre to find that she has tonsilitis...........so after sitting with her this evening pampering to her cries for help, medicines and drinks.......decided I'd progress further tomorrow once the anti b's kicked in............

well, that's the plan, lol











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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:42 pm

Today I finished modifying the little figures onto their cork and Kapok lifevests.

the milliput has hardened enough to carve and sand the final detais before going too hard, and these two gents were the first two to be almost ready got the moulfing pot.....they are the same figure, but with different vests as per photos found on the internet and supplied by andrew...
a final sanding and a little scraping once I have the other 17 figures to the same state and then I'll start moulding them before handing them all over to Adrian Clutterbuck for production.
neil.







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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:01 am

Wowsers Gadget their brilliant I bow before the master.
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:13 am

Reckon they are missing something though! Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

No arms....... cheers cheers cheers cheers
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:01 am

they're just an armless bit o' fun lads.lol!lol!lol!
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:08 am

You using the missing bits to build an army?? lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol!
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:09 pm

GROAN you get worse Damien lol!
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:51 pm

and here's a few arms and hats to go into the moulding process as well.

I feel like stan off Toy Story,lol!lol!lol!




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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:57 pm

Damien wrote:
You using the missing bits to build an army?? lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol!



Nign........Zay are all eascaping Beet by Beet,


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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:57 am

Well!!!, I am in shock and tears!!!

the snow has melted off the roof of my workshop and leaked down though the building...............and into my digi box.................thus stuffing up my TV viewing during working/playing hours.........
no more The Saint, Professionals, Lovejoy and Batman whilst I work..................I'm heartbroken

It's on the radiator drying out......but who knows........will it work or won't it???

As they say in Batman.....stay toooned for the next exiting episode!

Anyway, to consol myself and take my mind off those exicing episodes I am missing, I decided to do a little more work on the "arms"...firstly replacing the "thumbs" that tend to break off when moulding in polyester resin..........I drilled the ends of the thumb sockets and then inserted a small piece of brass wire and glued in place with cyano.............I'll then cover this "appendage" with some milliput and sand to shape.......I'll also fill any blemish caused by air holes when casting, before sanding down smooth.
as for the little crew men, they are all now ready for moulding..........so set making some casting boxes this morning.
Usually with a small amount of casting I'll make these boxes from Lego bricks ..........but there are so many of these chappies ( think they are hermaphrodite and breeding over night as there were at least 18 at last count ) I decided to make some casting boxes from ply wood.
the astute members will notice from the photos that there is only one length and one side..................errr, No!.........I'm not loosing it quite, just yet!??
those two pieces will be split length ways to make the boxes approximately 3.25inches deep in total and then the ends screwed to the lengths to make a box with an internal measurement of 6" x 3" x 3" in total.
Finally the constructed (but able to take apart) box will then again be split down the middle to make two exactly halves so that the mould can be made and split with ease. the halves will be held together to avoid leekage of rubber between the split by strong elastic bands.(hopefully, and that's the theory .







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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:02 pm

Boxes now complete and split into two halves.
a simple jig was mounted on the pillar drill bed to drill all the holes in the ends of the sides and the ends and sides are screwed together so that once moulded in rubber, the mould can be released by unscrewing the box.
they now need sanding down and then waxing and vaseline spreading into the bare timber to act as a release agent before loading up with plastecine, the figures and moulding.









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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:28 pm

Still at it, getting the moulding boxes ready for use.
Lego boxes are great because the two halves interlock. however once these wooden ones were split, there was mothing to stop the top and bottom halves sliding around when put together, and so drilled at the four corners this morning and glued in some brass pins to locate top and bottom halves together.
then once put together with elastic bands to hold, plus some vaseline sealant between the two halves, the rubber from the moulds technically won't leak out ( well that's the theory but having never done this with rubber moulds)......anything is possible,




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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:26 pm

As the boxes have come out quite deep I decided to make blanks to sit into the bottom of the box so that I don't have to use buckets full of plastecine as a base for the figures to sit in, and so made them out of Lego....plastecine will then go onto there with the crewman sitting on a thin layer and then the surrounds will be built up.
I have also now waxed up the insides and joining edges with release wax, hoping for an easy separation.

Going off on a tangent I have also decided to plank the boats with individual planks, and decided that the best representation of close grained timber planks was to order some 0.8mm Obeche veneer from Hobbies in Norfolk....4 sheets for me and two for my mate, Trawlerman, I paid one day and it arrived the next, free delivery and well packed seeing it was a metre long by 5inches wide, and not a single split anywhere............lovely stuff........brilliant service..........and I have now sliced 3 of the 4 sheets I have into 10mm wide strips.
The delivery on this service was superb, but sadly it's NOT what I am getting from some other seller on ebay. Paid for two batches of 2 sheets of 2.5mm mahogany sheet and immediately upon buying it via paypal on a buy it now 9 days ago...... I got charged two lots of 2 quid postage although they'll all go in one postage packet............and still no sign of the stuff........I feel negative feedback coming on,







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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:26 pm

so, this afternoon I have spent the time "loading up" the first two figures into the boxes..

starting with the bottom half..

Place the figure in and set in with lumps of plastecine

Surround the figure with plastecine and make up to the box wall.

Further add plastecine up to the figure.

Using a steel scribe, run around the edges of the plastecine touching the figure to get rid of any gaps so as to minimise moulding flash. One shot shows the gaps that occur between figure and mould and anouther shows these having been illiminated.

Place top half of box on and then run a fillet of plastecine around the edge, covering the joint of the box top and bottom to stop rubber leaking out.

Finally make some hollows in the plastecine which will act as locating lugs to stop the empty mould halves sliding around when moulding.

The first and second figures are now ready to have the first rubber half moulded.

neil.



















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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:12 pm

Very interesting Neil.
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:48 pm

thanks Damien..........I love this process...........it really makes things come to life, knowing that you can replicate almost anything, repeatedly over and over, once you have got the first one made to your own satisfaction.



they all look odd at the moment because of the different shades of putty , but once reproduced in one colour resin, and then painted, they actually come to life, just as your model of the workshop does.

It is so much fun, and a total distraction from building the boats, like a Model T production run, lol



However the next shot looks like a macarbre scene from a Spaghetti western, after Clint Eastward has unleashed his firepower,

my first five figures are now ready to mould in their moulding boxes.......this will take place tomorrow.

the three brass thingie's on the old towel are are my nice new brass drop keels and their template of wood, just back from my mate at Fleetwood and a nice job he has made of them too.

the big question here is.........what colour where they painted?





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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:12 am

it's a messy job, but someone has to do it

the five mould boxes with the first half of the rubber mould poured in......8 hours now to being cured and ready to split........so will probably let them cure overnight.
Have just made three more casting boxes to speed up the process and am now, when put together, able to cast 8 figures at once.


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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:37 pm

I am loving this Neil...
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:45 pm

I'm glad you are, barrie..........it's now becoming a little repetative for me, with so many figures to mould......I'll be glad to see the last one pop in the box, lol



anyway, today I made 3 more casting boxes, but as they were made the same dims as the 1st 5 boxes, they are too long for some figures such as the seated ones, and so, not to waste costly rubber in making oversized rubber moulds where the rubber is doing nothing but being a "packing agent" I used wooden blanks to shorten the interior of the moulds for casting..

the three boxes below show the packing blanks in place.



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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:14 pm

How to use over two hundred dollars worth of RTV rubber in one easy go.

The second halves of the first five figure moulds have beed laid up, but not before the figure and the rubber surface were given a good coating of vaseline as a release agent.
The company did send some release spray agent, and I had used this brand before some years ago, and it didn't work........I had to cut the mould apart, completely ruining it.
So this time I made a small 2,5mm square test mould and used the release agent between layers, and it still didn't work and the mould wouldn't separate, and had to be cut apart, and that is why I have used vaseline.

I have also put it onto the adjoining edges of the mould boxes to act as a seal, and held the boxes together with strong P.O. best elastic bands, courtesy of my postie.

But 3 halves and five full moulds 120 x 70 x 80mm internal moulds, complete with figure trapped inside, has taken a full 5 kilos of RTV rubber........Forgot how expensive mould making can be, lol







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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:45 pm

whilst my rubber is curing, I have had a little time today to do a bit on the motor sailer, and so sanded the sub deck smooth and making it ready to take the planking. I also put the raised comings on for the forward petrol tank covers, the main engine cover (refered to as the "dog kennel" and the engine gearbox control........will leave it at that now for the next day or so.





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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:55 pm

Looking good Neil....... What spray release did you use?? I have always used this one It isn't cheap at £13 a can but most important of all it works....

W..
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:14 pm

hiwindy....it's a brand called ambersil ( think....something like that anyway) and it just don't work..........I get my resin from CFS so next time I'm ordering I'll get some.........halfway through the moulding now so will just persevere with the vaseline.....it's a good release agent.......just messy.

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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:25 pm

Is this what you used, if it is I have used it. It didn't work on the master when making the mould but it was OK when actually casting the resin to aid the release of the fitting... I found out the expensive way like you did!!!


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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:02 pm

yeh..

that's the stuff......bought it from Titranti's and it's sold as a release agent......but it's not anything of the sort..........they used to sell a proper release wax in a can, which was superb, but don't do it now...nice to know that that will aid release of the mouldings though, as I have never used a lubricant for that.cheers.

neil.
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:34 pm

Back to the figures now............

I'm like an unstopable train now................crashing on as fast as the rubber will cure.

got the second halves of the seeted chappies done which are curing, along with the first halves of five other figures, while having made the casting boxes vacent for these five, I removed the first set of five figures ( c'mon guys keep up, or am I confusing you all) and split the moulds.

Now this was a little harder than I had thought, as the vaseline had made a really super seal on the edges of the boxes and needed to be wedged apart in the first instance.

Also in one of the shots, you'll see that in certain small areas where I couldn't get my release agent ( vaseline) into the tightest spots the second half of rubber adhered to the firts half and had to be snipped off.

All in all though, the first five moulds seem to have come out jolly well..............am looking forward to "running in" the moulds with some casts towards the end of the week.




















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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:11 pm

It is no wonder that vendors charge a decent rate for their castings, and I can understand their annoyance when people moan about the cost of items today.

It has taken me some long hours to make the figures that I have completed for Adrian Clutterbuck, and it would have taken many more had I not been able to convert existing figures into what I have now moulded.

Also, the three large moulds shown on the scales each weighs a Kilo, which equates to 20 quid's worth of fubber for each mould.

In total the pile of moulds that can be seen plus toe ones in the boxes this morning's casting session (12 in total have cost, inc. post and packing) just over £10.00p each in rubber to produce..........and that doesn't include time to mould, and develope the figures.

Just another six figures to go!!!

So, when next you see stuff at shows remember what it takes to produce them in the first place, and these moulds ARE expendable after a while.......they don't last for ever.

neil.









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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:37 pm

nhp651 wrote:

Also, the three large moulds shown on the scales each weighs a Kilo, which equates to 20 quid's worth of fubber for each mould.

In total the pile of moulds that can be seen plus toe ones in the boxes this morning's casting session (12 in total have cost, inc. post and packing) just over £10.00p each in rubber to produce..........and that doesn't include time to mould, and develop the figures.

So, when next you see stuff at shows remember what it takes to produce them in the first place, and these moulds ARE expendable after a while.......they don't last for ever.

neil.


It still won't stop them moaning about the prices though!!!! lol! lol! lol! lol!

W...
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:47 pm

Windy wrote:


It still won't stop them moaning about the prices though!!!! lol! lol! lol! lol!

W...

Your right there windy but don't get Neil started on that road Rolling Eyes lol!
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:45 am

Oh god No!!!...............I'd bang on for days, lol......anyway back to the workshop...........made a bit of a cockup with the boat hatches that I have to rectify.....................muppet.



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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:49 pm

the last 5 figures are now being moulded..the new batch of silicon rtv rubber arrived this morning............ my marathon is nearly over.

and so whilst the rubber was/is curing I set my mind back to doing a little to the motor sailer............and whilst glancing back and forth at the boat and the plans on my board.......I suddenly realised what a cock up I had made........the two forward openings over which the petrol tank covers were to go...........were twice the length that they should be.

I was annoyed with myself for blundering on, thinking I didn't need to check the plans before doing the next stage, and so set about rectifying the mistake, by cutting back, filling in and modyfying and then gluing..............now, when the tank tops are put on they will be fit for size and purpose and not ludicrously large.
eventually when set, the area will be faired in with filler, sanded smooth and then the deck planking will cover any evidence of a total lack of concentration.........as Del Boy once said "Who dares win's, Wodney, Who dares wins"







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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:20 pm

Just over six weeks ago I started to re jig and re "costume" the set of lifeboat figures I developed, and it has been a constant slog on the road to producing the moulds for some new figures.
countless hours , £300.00p + and 24 moulds later I am now ready to try them out to see if they mould well or not..............I have "cut" the moulds with the channels for the resin to flow, so hopefully tomorrow I'll start "running" the moulds in. wish me luck.

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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:23 pm

gawd knows what happened there but you can view it in stereo, lol
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:44 pm

Ah.....that's better!!!

I wish you luck Neil........A nervous time about to be had me thinks..
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PostSubject: Re: MY NEW PROJECT...or two.   Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:46 pm

Looks like 2 different photo's there Neil no shoe in the second does this mean you've made to many moulds lol looking forward to seeing these fellows emerge from the moulds
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