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Roadrunner
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PostSubject: New to FE   Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:37 pm

ok normally I don't do fast electrics or brushless motors or lipos but im about to break all silence and go out on a limb and try it.

So i have looked around and seen a few nice ARTR kits about £200-300 mark, not bad but still not what i want, can't learn jack from something pre built really, so i want to build my own Mono 1 boat from available parts for entry into the SWAMBC mono 1 season next year.

So i know as much as my wife does about working the washing machine (bugger all)

So have picked out a few things and the rest i hope someone here can fill in the gaps!

Hulls ( this ones if preferable)



http://www.astecmodels.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_87&products_id=647

Or (this ones twice the price)



http://www.astecmodels.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_87&products_id=1267

Now im tossed up between a few outriggers/suface drives so i picked 2 i like the look off and value for cash but open to better suggestions.

Option 1



http://www.astecmodels.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_79&products_id=716

Option 2



http://www.astecmodels.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_79&products_id=748

i would like to avoid an offset rudder if possible but am open to suggestions to rudders and stingers if they would do the job better.

Ok that's the stuff i picked out... the help i need is what else am i missing from this list, i have a suggested motor of a 380 size Leopard 2860/B 4050 (85Amp) + cooling jacket and an 100amp esc to go with.

Running off some 4000 nhmi batters for now as lipos i'm still not convinced on due to there cost to me as a 'learner' i'm not prepared to apart with £50 on recommended battery's per race (6 mins) when a recommended 7.2 tamyia pack is also allowed.

err ya thats what i got help !

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PostSubject: Re: New to FE   Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:01 pm

roadrunner why dont you make your own hull ? balsa coating with glass tissue / resin is still light enough . i dont see why you have to spend an arm and a leg to start racing ?
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PostSubject: Re: New to FE   Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:12 pm

I did think of that but buying the HOR hull pre built at £54 is cheaper then I can knock out a hull using balsa and gpr to coat the hull, even spending up to £100 is not unreasonable on a pre built hull, there is also concern of what's allowed in the rules of racing them in the comps, which really put me off, last thing is to waste my time building a boat I cannot use as it doesn't conform in some way to the rules, buying a hull of the shelf to me seams more practical and less hassle in the long run.

You mustn't forget I have over 6 years worth of projects outstanding and there not even mine once finished, so I want quick access to events and such and right now fast electrics fills that gap and not spend the next year building a boat that may or may not be suitable.


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PostSubject: Re: New to FE   Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:25 pm

Hi RR just one bit of info for you and I'm not sure why more in the FE world haven't latched on to this guy but I usually/always get my lipo's from giant cod his loong max tipple bty's are comparably priced to NiMhs and obviously lighter and rated at a 5c charge so your prob only restricted by your chargers max amps when it comes to charging them especially the 3 & 4000mah ones

he also does some cracking lipo chargers at proper decent prices


The link
http://www.giantcod.co.uk/lipo-battery-c-1.html

Phil
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PostSubject: Re: New to FE   Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:53 pm

Thanks Phil i have no clue on lipos at all..

other then working out there capacity and cell rating, im going to be using 2's for the mono 1 so £16 for a '2cell 5000mha seams a bargain, also the G.T. Power A606 charger at £32 not bad at all for lipos i was half expecting to be spending 4 times that!

but how do i know if a charger with these statistics Output 50W, Discharge 5W, Balancing current 300mAh/cell will charge a 20C '2' 5000amh lipo?

I am assuming that a 20c 5000mha lipo will supply 100a of constant current for a duration period of around 7 mins or so ( which i should be seeing how that's a race!)

does this mean i do have to stay below the 100amp motors draw? ( i know esc does not matter as long as it can handle the motor and a bit more, why i would use a 100amp esc for a 85 amp motor draw) just checking i don't; want to buy the wrong battery esc and motor not understanding what i can and cannot do?..

see why i am sticking with 2' with small motors with 85amp draw with a 100 amp esc lol im pretty sure i can't mess that up!

see how clueless i am! ..
lol!

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PostSubject: Re: New to FE   Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:12 am

Hi Aron on the subject of bty/esc/motor choice your about spot on the motor/prop combo shouldn't be capable of drawing more than the bty can supply however this doesn't mean that your restricted to say a 100a motor for a 20c 5000mah bty as long as in the final set up the draw isn't above the 100a my slow mo has a 26a motor but only draws about 8 when driving the 30mm prop used. on the esc front go for something that has a good 50% in reserve when the motor is at max to prevent magic smoke.

when it comes to chargers he has a great little 200w one that will handle up to 6 cell lipo's for about 45 squid and that gives you up to a 10a charge rate much more suitable for the 5c charge rate lipo's

http://www.giantcod.co.uk/a610-200w-balance-charger-discharger-p-404525.html

this is the one I use and the little extra cost is well worth it mind you you'll need a good field bty for it lol and if running from your car lighter socket check the fuse rating as at full charge this one can draw 20a or so also don't expect any joy from the software that comes with all these chargers to hook it to your laptop as its generally pretty useless and even if it does work it tells you nothing that you can't get from the charger screen so you need to be a right anorack about your btys to bother with it

Phil
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PostSubject: Re: New to FE   Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:47 am

Thanks for that Phil its like a mine field out there when it comes to chargers, battery's i worked out after a little while, chargers well that's a whole new ball game!

Since the most i will be buying would be the '''2' 20c 5000mha or the 3' 4600''' would the 50w charger be more then enough to handle? were only talking £15 difference in price between the 50-200w chargers, but yet if i'm not going to be charging 4-6's li-po's then i'm not sure i have a need to use a 200W charger?

If i was running in the mono 2, cat or hydro 2 class then 4-6' lipos would be required so i can understand the need for a larger charger, but since i would like to stick to the mono 1 for at least 1 season taking a low ''50W'' charger for 2 '5000's out in the field seams about right to me?... when i comes to charging outside, the guys around here have a clever little system....

//They have a few 24v lorry battery's ( i think, might be 48v not sure on a lorry battery voltage, i just know the battery is big as a damn suitcase and takes 2 guys to move it), with a fused hook up point for your chargers, plug in and charge, saves using the cars, which helps since i don't drive, which also explains why i want to race mono 1 as hulls are in the 32" to 22.5" sizes, and i'm opting for a mid point 26" as i can carry that with little hassle on the train.//


Help is arreciated its just a big learning curve for me and taking quite a lot to get my head around Watt does Watt!


lol!

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PostSubject: Re: New to FE   Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:52 pm

Ok Aron some maths on the chargers a 5000mah 1c chrge rate bty can be charged at a max of 5amps (5000mah)(1 x capacity) and will take an hour to charge however those loong max tipple btys are a 5c charge rate bty so 5 x 5000 = 25000mah (25amps) max charge rate a 200w charger will give you up to 10amps max charge rate so you'll never put to higher charge into the bty and also at 10amps they will charge from "flat" in approx 30 mins surely thats worth the extra 15 squid. also please note a higher voltage bty does not req a higher charge rate its all on the "c" (capacity) rating so a 2s1p (2series 1paralell)500mah bty requires the same ampherage charge as a 6s1p 5000mah bty only the voltage changes.

Note: a flat lipo actually reads no less than 3v per cell (ideally 3.2v) as they should never be fully discharged. (your esc should prevent this by cutting motor power to app 40% giving you enough to get to shore)

Another note: these chargers have several charge functions for lipo btys its best to always charge on a "balance charge" with the parralell jst connector plugged in as well as the main leads and after a days sailing use the "storage charge" facility to put the bty in an ideal storage state. in this state they can be safely left in store for about 6 months with no further maintenance required.

final note for now: when setting the discharge rate on the charger (yes they can discharge a bty too) make sure its no higher than 1c of the bty being processed (with a 5000mah bty thats a 5a discharge rate) this is not because a higher rate will damage the bty just that a gentle discharge when going into storage is a good thing

hope this all helps mate can be quite a bit to take in in one go but carefull bty management will pay serious dividends in the life expectancy of the bty, much like NiMh's and NiCds

Phil

ps I think we might need a glossary of lipo/brushless motor terminology some where lol
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PostSubject: Re: New to FE   Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:49 pm

Hey Phil thanks for that, your right its a lot to take in one go, but i think i have the jist of it now, takes a little while sometimes but once there it never leaves lol

guess im spending the extra £15, i was tossed up between buying the cheaper charger and 5 batterys but in this case i will get 4 bats and the more expensive charger (budget)

Today I ordered my hull I have taken some good advice from a few here... and am Importing the Delta Force 26" hull from the States, (i can't find a uk supplier) and will be kitting it out with the rest from Astec, total cost i've added up, £200, that's for everything, except, the lipos and charger, & a new receiver for my dx5. I will post photo's when the hull arrives ( i expect 14 days or so)

Talking on references i found a website that tells you pretty much everything you need to know, I would say intermediate level, but its understandable for beginners too, i posted a topic on the forum ( its where i have got my most of my information from before i started asking questions)

Topic

The Site

unfortunately the site won't allow to copy parts of it to the forum due to their © so to avoid any issues later down the line, can only post the link to the site.

RR

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PostSubject: Re: New to FE   Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:19 pm

Ok just an update on my FE build.

the hull is on its way..

Detailed Results:

Processed Through Sort Facility, June 28, 2011, 1:03 pm, ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)
Arrived at Sort Facility, June 28, 2011, 11:30 am, ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)
Acceptance, June 27, 2011, 7:25 pm, BOSTON, MA 02205
Electronic Shipping Info Received, June 27, 2011


Sat in NY lucky thing.. wish I was there!

For those who have no idea what I've ordered... I brought the original Delta Force 25.5" hull from offshore GRP white gelcoat, going to get my usual flare for the dramatics on the paint work. I've also decided on my setup after speaking to several 'experts' i know, so this is the setup as follows...


350mm Strut unit with 4mm flexi with adaptor sleeve to take either 4mm props or 3/16. One short, 42mm from transom, 78mm long rudder, Alui 52mm turn fin's, small 25mm trim tabs, running the 2860/4050 380 can size motor rated for 85 amps with a 100 amp esc to boot, prop going with a 35X carbon prop to start with, working up to the X435, running off a 2s 5000mha lipo but i can boot up the rpm to a 3s 4600 later if needs be, the prop will give me some indication as to what's going on.

Total cost including the import of the hull £320 - the radio, still looking for a good quality pistol grip set, possibly going with the spectrum dx2 or 3. 2.4ghz set, so looking to add around the £50 mark there depending. Well once the hull arrives i should be able to crack on with this quick build, it gives me something to do when the Komet winds me up.

RR

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PostSubject: Re: New to FE   Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:51 pm

Sat in NY lucky thing,
No way the place is mad and to fast for me, returned today,and after two visits before bloody hectic.
Visit California,more pleasant Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: New to FE   Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:12 pm

Sorry bud i'm a city boy i'm not from Cornwall originally, this slow life is not for me i like to be busy lol

NY is on my list of places to visit along with A&E when i slice my fingers off when i forget the prop on this boat spins at 40000 rpm lol! affraid

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PostSubject: Re: New to FE   Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:05 pm

Well just an update.. ordered all the parts today, missing a few items (motor mount, servo mount) but not to worried about that, some were out of stock so have left a few extra parts out to make the P&P a bit more reasonable when they do come back in.

From Astec

Products
------------------------------------------------------
1 x TS safety Loop (1) = £5.99 Inc. VAT
2 x balance weight (2) = £0.80 Inc. VAT
1 x ETTI Trim Tabs Medium (1) = £14.40 Inc. VAT
1 x 2860/4050 Leopard (1) = £50.00 Inc. VAT
1 x Hifei Swordfish 120 (1) =£50.00 Inc. VAT
------------------------------------------------------

From PMB

Products
-----------------------------------------------------------
1 x EM60 4mm flexishaft assemblystrut etc : £32.00
1 x EM80 rudder 95mm long : £14.95
1 x HF200 shaft saver 1.4 : £3.00
1 x GA7 Through hull water nipple alu : £2.50
1 x GA6 water outlet aluminium : £3.00
1 x GA53 2 CNC t bars : £7.50
1 x GA19 rubber bellows 2 pcs. : £2.50
1 x RL4 balljoint linkages 2 pcs : £3.00
2 x 35X4 prop : £2.95
1 x HF21 2 medium turn fins : £10.95
1 x S2A watercooling silicone tube 4mm 2 metres : £4.00
------------------------------------------------------------------
Total £189.30

Grand total so far... £214 for all the parts, a Further £86 for the hull (with import cost $58 Shocked)

£300 ouch Shocked Shocked guess i will be feeling that this month!

Still to buy lipos & Charger, so £70 or so there is needed, and i'm still trying to decide if i go wit ha 2.4ghz set or get a 40mhz, as 2.4 really hate voltage drops below 6v, the esc has a built in fail safe, but i'm thinking to just get the 40hmz to be on the safe side, we all know how temperamental 2.4 is when submerged, and as these things sit so low its a bit of a risky operation.

Anyone ever used one of these? lookie if you have what you think of it?

Only draw back is that i need to have at least 6 spare crystal sets for 40mhz anyone got any spares they don't mind parting with for a few £ & P&P?

Hull is in the Uk (has been since yesterday morning) so must be stuck in customs, typical really.. so hopefully i should get most of the parts by Monday, Tuesday, hull i hope by tomorrow, but maybe Saturday since its sent by UPS.

keep watching this is going to be fun!

RR

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Last edited by Roadrunner on Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: New to FE   Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:34 am

well a quick update on some parts, everything from astec arrived on Friday, damn hes good, still waiting for the rest from pmb so will chase them up tomorrow if not arrived with the postied, the hull well thats a whole new ball game!

hulls been sat in Coventry since the 29th in customs, so finally after tracking it down where it actually was was told due to it being imported its subject to import tax.. uff so another £25 vanished... this hulls gone from being a matter of £86 with P&P up to £112.. i should have brought the etti CF/kelval hull from astec at this rate, so something to remember for next time... don't import so anyway have to wait for import tax letter from parcel force before i can pay it and finally get the hull here!

well that's a cracking start for this week ..

customs = robbing buggers now i know why i hate out government, rip you off till the end of time!!!

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PostSubject: Re: New to FE   Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:57 am

YES IT ARRIVED FINALLY! 08:35am!

omg this hull is stunning worth every penny of Import Tax...

needs a bit of cleaning up around the seam of the deck and hull, and probably re-inforcment of the hull along the ride pad, (which is normal for these hull's)

will post pics later today once i finish '..............................' over it lol!

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