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barriew
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PostSubject: Design & Build - Mk2   Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:32 pm

My client is so pleased with his fire boat that he has placed an order for a second model. Laughing This time he wants a Police Launch - at the moment. I will be using the same hull design, but I have decided to use this to try out a new material - Foamex. This is PVC foam sandwiched between two thin sheets of PVC. Its quite expensive, but cuts quite easily with a 'stanley knife'. I have been experimenting with glues. So far I haven't found any of the usual plastic glues to be very good at sticking the foam. I think I need a PVC glue.

The basic parts have been cut from 3mm Foamex. I also have some 1mm and 5mm. I think the latter is too thick for this model, but will probably use it for the 'keel'.  I am planning to skin it with plasticard - the 1mm Foamex is too rigid, but I may use this for the cabin.

Barrie

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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:02 pm

The PVC pipe cement finally arrived. I thought I would be able to buy it at B&Q, but no so had to order online Sad
I have now stuck the frames the the deck, and am ready to attach the cabin floor. 

Barrie

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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:13 pm

good start, looking forward to more  Thumbup
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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:04 pm

The cabin floor has been fixed to the formers the transom made and installed, and the keel cut from 5mm Foamex and glued in place. Next job is to make and install the knees, then ready for the skins. I am going to have to use Epoxy glue for those as polystyrene glue doesn't work on PVC, and PVC glue doesn't work on HIPS  Sad

Barrie

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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:03 pm

The knees have no been made and fitted, ans since the photo was taken, I have installed strips between the knees to hold the skins.
I am going to fit the side skins first. This way I hope to be able to stick the bottom skins onto the edge of the side skins to give a good seal - plasticard to plasticard.

Barrie
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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:23 pm

Krishna on Mayhem uses this stuff to fantastic results weekly ....and posts over on mayhem...............it might be worth while you asking him what glue he uses to great effect.

neil.
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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:50 am

Another great creation Barrie.  2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:20 am

nhp651 wrote:
Krishna on Mayhem uses this stuff to fantastic results weekly ....and posts over on mayhem...............it might be worth while you asking him what glue he uses to great effect.

neil.
Yes, Krisna and Escipion's models were what made me give it a go, but I really can't see any advantage in using this stuff. Its quite expensive, and not easy to cut to give a square edge. I'll finish this one then back to liteply or plasticard for me Very Happy Very Happy

Barrie
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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:26 am

apart from seeing it in your and krishna's builds i've never seen it elsewhere and never seen it in the model shops.

is it any quicker for you, using this stuff............ 

apart from the ease of painting it, i could never see a use for it in my models...........but it's interesting to watch .
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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:57 pm

It isn't in model shops - I don't think. Its used by sign makers. I thought it might be quicker which is why I selected it for this project. My client is used to the speed of Lego  Rolling Eyes, but I haven't found it to be quicker than liteply and plasticard. I also don't think it is any lighter at least using the 3 mm version.

I wont be using it again after I have used up what I bought.

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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:48 pm

Was reading your comments about foamex board with interest and noticed your comment about the expense. Of course I don't know where you are buying your board from however I have found a source at £19.00 per 8' x 4' board/sheet here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3mm-Matt-White-Foam-PVC-Sheet-2440-x-1220-8x4ft-Foamex-Foam-PVC-Sheet-Sign-Board-/300686324645 cost compared to buying balsa and ply is a lot lower. Yes will agree that you have to use the adhesive you mentioned however that adhesive is available in anywhere that sells plumbing fittings, Screwfix is cheaper than most for example. Weight is comparable to liteply. I tend to use a mixture of materials. I found a load of free foamex in a bin outside local printshop recently and if you ask they are generally happy to give it for free. In regards to costs, ply in 1/16 down to 1/64 or metric equivalents is very expensive from model shops or SLEC or Balsa Cabin however if you go to Ebay  there are plenty of suppliers on there and costs are about 50% lower.
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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:55 pm

Yes - I guess buying in bulk would be cheaper. I bought A3 x 3 mm, A3 x 5 mm and A4 x 1 mm. These were each priced including P&P, so I guess I overpaid, but didn't want a large sheet until I saw if I found it something I might use again. Also I wasn't sure what thickness would be needed. As it is, most of the 5 mm sheet is unused. I will probably use the 1 mm for the superstructure.
I can see its attractions, but its not provided any benefits for me over ply or plasticard. Also I was surprised how easy it marks, and I cant just cover it glass and resin.  Shocked

Barrie
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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:45 pm

Out of interest how much is plasticard? Not even sure where to get it?  I have never bought it as generally use ply. In regards to bulk, I get together with other modellers in our club and we buy what we all need and share costs.
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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:19 am

Depends on thickness obviously, but also how much you buy. I usually by large sheets, and have quite a bit in stock of 0.5, 0.75 and 1.5 mm. In the club we have a free source of 0.5mm  Very Happy You can buy A4 sheets on eBay, and I sometimes buy 2 mm from that source. I also buy from shows where you don't have any carriage charges  Thumbup. But I haven't bought any for quite a while now so I am not sure of current prices.
As with Foamboard, carriage can be expensive for large sheets.

Barrie
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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:18 pm

Today I made and installed the rudder, glued the propshaft and fitted both side skins. These still need tidying up before the bottom skins can go on. The side are fixed with gel superglue. I plan to run some silicone sealant round the skin to cabin floor joint inside, at least those sections I can reach.



I also made a stand from 5 mm Foamex - not sure how long it will last  Rolling Eyes - I will paint it.


Barrie
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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:20 pm

Bottom skins now fitted and roughly trimmed and filled - waiting for glue and filler to dry before tidying up. I think that I am going to put a 0.5mm plasticard skin on the deck - this stuff shows marks very easily. I also need to add a skin to the transom.

Barrie

 
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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:03 pm

The deck and transom are now covered with 0.75 mm plasticard. After some final rubbing down of filler, the hull can be handed over to the paint shop (Grandson lol!
The next job is to design and build the cabin.

Barrie
 
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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:33 pm

Today I finished sanding the hull, added a strip of 0.5 mm round the top of the hull, and then spayed a coat of primer to make it easier for the paint shop.  Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:53 pm

I've never thought of using this foam board for models, it looks pretty easy and fast, only think that concerns me is how fragile they look, is the stuff easy to repair ?

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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:27 pm

Don't know - haven't broken one yet lol! lol! lol!
In fact apart from marking easily, they are pretty tough - I used PVC covered PVC foam, although you can get, and I think Krishna uses, paper covered foam. You could always finish that with tissue and resin to strengthen it.
As I've covered the deck and transom in plastic card, which is what the skins are made of, there is no foam board to get damaged on this model. 

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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:26 am

so if you can cover it with tissue and resin is the foam board comparable in price to ply or other similar materials we usually use? and what thickness can you get it in?
last question.. is that stuff any good at being used as plug making material?

reason i ask, not that i want to build  working boat with it, but because of its fast construction and i assume it can conform to shapes relatively easily, it might be worth using as plug material to make a mold.

I've had a project on the back burner for some time a ''hurley 22'' sail boat.  not overly complex but it would take a while to make a plug using balsa strip, bulk heads pins etc etc , which is also a lot of work as well as cost, i'm just hoping this may be a solution to progress with that.

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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:09 am

I can't really comment of price as I bought what were effectively 3 sample pieces 1 mm, 3 mm and 5 mm. The first A4 size, the other 2 A3. I thought it expensive, but wanted to try it out. This is the PVC type, which I don't think you can cover with resin. I think the paper type is cheaper, and will take tissue and resin I believe. 
You CAN sand the PVC type to round corners but I don't think its a mould making material.

I didn't find it quicker to use than liteply or plastic card, but others don't seem to agree.

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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:11 pm

maybe i'll try building an airboat after the springer and give it a try, see what you can and can't do to it.

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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:06 pm

I have now completed the cabin. Its made from plastic card - I did intend to use the 1mm Foamex, but only remembered when the thing was half built Embarassed Rolling Eyes I also forgot to cut the windows before I stuck it together, mainly because I was building by eye - no plans. I will use black vinyl for the windows in the rear cabin.
I have started painting the hull, couldn't wait for the paint shop. He has got a load of new Lego which is taking his interest.

Barrie

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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:41 am

The boat is finished - just waiting for the client to decide what other things he wants to add - almost certainly figures. Rolling Eyes

  

There is a problem with the switch which needs to be replaced when I return from holiday.
and here it is with its sister ship.

 

And when I return I can start building a boat for myself Very Happy Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:59 am

they look great barrie......is it back to normal hips now.
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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:34 pm

They look terrific Barrie.  2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup 2thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:41 pm

Thanks guys Smile
Yes Neil, having sold a couple of models, I now have room to build a more 'normal' model. This is my next project. 



I have the drawing and when I get back from holiday I will be ordering the wood. I plan to build from Liteply, not 3/16 ths ply which is what the original mode was built from - seems a bit of overkill to me.  Wink

I still have to work out how to make the two stage ramp work - the first stage is quite easy, but I'm not sure about the second stage. Apparently these vessels used to drop the main ramp as they approached the landing ramp, then drop the 'flap' when they were almost in.

I have noticed that the model is named RHUM, but looking at photos of the original I notice it is called RUM. Not sure why this should be, unless its because this is a stand-off scale.

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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:40 pm

great job  2thumbsup

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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:52 pm

barriew wrote:
Thanks guys Smile
Yes Neil, having sold a couple of models, I now have room to build a more 'normal' model. This is my next project. 



I have the drawing and when I get back from holiday I will be ordering the wood. I plan to build from Liteply, not 3/16 ths ply which is what the original mode was built from - seems a bit of overkill to me.  Wink

I still have to work out how to make the two stage ramp work - the first stage is quite easy, but I'm not sure about the second stage. Apparently these vessels used to drop the main ramp as they approached the landing ramp, then drop the 'flap' when they were almost in.

I have noticed that the model is named RHUM, but looking at photos of the original I notice it is called RUM. Not sure why this should be, unless its because this is a stand-off scale.

Barrie

she was called Rhum Barrie, after the small island of the same name.... the ship has sisters called Coll, Eigg, Raasay and another which I forget..
I have pictures of a friends Coll and have some myself of the real ship Eigg if you would like me to post them for you.
there is nothing complicated about the three stage ramp.................the top flaps worked simply on gravity......when raised the flaps clang backwards as they become top heavy to stay up right, and when the main ramp is lowered the top flaps fall forward onto stops as the main ramp reaches the berthing slipway ramp.........nothing more complicated.......think I have a video of eigg coming into land at Oban somewhere, but all the small inter island ferries work on the same principal, and if you go onto Youtube and key in Loch Riddon or Loch Shira coming into largs, you'll see the ramps in operation....although the ramps on these ships are three phase, you can see the flaps.the last stage just flopping forward at the last moment....   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T80SzKFe8lE    the middle stage can be worked by using fine guage fishing metal trace..    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXIHYkY4tc8
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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:34 am

Thanks Neil. I thought it would drop of its own accord, wasn't sure it would return.

Barrie
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PostSubject: Re: Design & Build - Mk2   Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:04 am

Thanks for the youtube clips Neil, there were some interesting ones that followed the second one as well  2thumbsup I now begin to see the fascination of building these ferries Cool
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